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Discussion Starter #1
After seeing the BBC prog last night showing intensively bred pups and having given this advice to people who have asked about finding a good breeder, I thought I would start a new thread with a couple of points for people looking to buy to consider - i hope people don't just skip over it thinking 'Oh I would never get a puppy from one of those places' as sadly so many are being duped...
So I think most people reading this would know not to buy a puppy without the mum being present, if someone is just selling a pup and mum is not there it is 99.9% certain to be from a puppy farm. Another scam these people use is to bring in a litter of pups and have a bitch there that they say is the puppies mum but isn't, if you have not been in touch with the breeder throughout the puppies start in life and have not been sent photo's of each stage with mum, then when you visit ask the breeder to see photo's of the whole litter with mum when they were very young, I am pretty certain no decent breeder would breed a litter of pups and not have plenty of photo's of them developing, most have pic's of the pups feeding from mum. Even the larger licenced breeders usually take lots of photo's. A common way to sell these pups is when advertised as 1 remaining or pup returned to breeder - again ask for those photo's of mum with the litter. When looking at ads advertising pups that you like the look of google the telephone number, it will sometimes bring up other adverts using the same telephone number and you can tell if they are selling lots of different pups. It really is so worth spending a bit of time to stop those poor 'farmed' pups being sold so easily. For health testing etc there are already posts to look up.
 

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Thank you Dawn.

http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/puppy-farms-how-and-why-to-avoid-buying-a-farmed-puppy.html

This advice is on every page pets4homes -

Please read the following advice before buying a new pet, you should also read our article on avoiding scams :

NEVER make the decision to get a dog or puppy on a whim. A dog is a lifetime commitment and a lot of thought should go in to it before making the decision.
NEVER buy a new dog or puppy without being able to visit it at its home. If someone wants to meet you and makes excuses why you cant go to their home, just walk away and report it to us.
HELP US TO STOP PUPPY FARMING, read our PUPPY FARMING Information, in association with C.A.R.I.A.D
Read our detailed Information guide about dogs for potential new dog owners.
Puppies should not leave their mother until at the very least, 8 weeks old.
Read our Cockapoo Dog breed information profile to research and find out more about this breed.
NEVER send money to someone for a pet using Western Union or Money Gram, as your money cannot be traced once sent.
Ask to see the pedigree papers and ensure the breeder's name is on the certificate.
Recently some advertisers are advertising their pets as Pedigrees, but when people have gone to buy the pet, the seller has made excuses and said they will post on the pedigree papers. NEVER pay for a KC registered dog or pedigree cat if they dont have the certificates as you may never receive them.
Be wary of outlets offering more than one or two breeds
When visiting the seller note the surroundings and never go alone
Visit the puppy or kitten more than once
The breeder should want to know about you too
Ask to see the puppy or kittens mother - be very suspicious if you can't
Puppies and Kittens bred commercially, indiscriminately and carelessly are likely to…

Develop disease
Have temperamental problems
Be difficult to housetrain
Find adjusting to family life hard
Suffer physical defects and have hereditary weaknesses
Think carefully before buying and do not buy the pet because you feel sorry for it.
If you buy from an unscrupulous breeder or dealer, you will be supporting their trade in misery. Every one you buy, another takes it place.
Buying a puppy or kitten in good health is vital for its own well-being as well as your bank balance.

Please read our Pet Advice section for further information before buying a dog. Here are a few very useful articles you should read before visiting any dogs or puppies :

1) Ten pitfalls to avoid when buying a pedigree puppy
2) What paperwork should you have
3) Important Questions to ask the Breeder
4) Picking a healthy puppy
5) Choosing a pedigree puppy
6) Health testing for dogs


In the end it is down to the buyer - they are the only ones who can actually stop puppy farming/ dog factories/ puppy mills.
People who sell dogs from the above are con artists, some of them are sadly very good. But they are not selling puppies cheaply and it is pretty obvious that the pups do not look well physically or mentally. Potential buyers really, really need to have their eyes open.
Personally I wold like to see strict legislation limiting the number of dogs that can be owned by one individual. Any breeder of pedigree dogs should be unable to register more than a specific number of litters in a year. Unfortunately this does not protect cross breeds, but perhaps it should be made compulsory for breeders to register all puppies with the KC on either the pedigree or working register or a new pet register. The KC needs to stand up and do something radical to ensure the health and well being of all dogs. Perhaps they should also change their name from Kennel club. Vets who knowingly support puppy mills etc should be struck off.
Dogs are companion animals, they should never be a business.
Rant and Fume.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for the tip on googling the telephone number - hadn't thought of that.
Its worth a try, having said that on a documentary recently where they caught a couple who brought thousands of puppies into the country then sold them on they actually had loads of different phones - a different one for each breed they were selling, evil and sadly getting more clever
 

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It is disgusting and it is a worry especially as I am looking for a pup. I study every advert, every website and gut instinct plays a part as well. Rang one woman and it just didn't feel right (could be doing her a terrible injustice but I wasn't prepared to take the risk).
 

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I find it really sad when you read posts from people who can no longer contact their breeder once they have bought the puppy, i.e. no answer on the mobile number and then it suddenly goes out of service. That is often a puppy farmer, as they change mobiles all the time and have different numbers for different breeds etc.
Another way of doing research is say someone has an advert for puppies available in a certain town, then if you Google e.g. cockapoos for sale in xxxxxxxx (town), it will quite often throw up their previous ads and you can get a good idea how often they are breeding and how many different dogs that involves etc. You can then sometimes see that the bitch may be sold on at some point. You can also Google images in the same way and it's very interesting what comes up sometimes.
 

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I saw this it was heartbreaking and I have enquired with lots of people, some get back to me on different phone numbers and this rang a bell with me :( also I think if you speak to people you can get a feel, it certainly made me think twice on several occasions. There was one ad and when you clicked further into it looking at all the ads this person had, there were 8 different breeds of pups he was selling - got to be farmed puppies, so I avoided him for sure!
 

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I bought 2 Cockapoo pups from what I thought was a legitimate source. I didn’t want to go to a breeder, as personally I don’t agree with breeding dogs for profits. I went to this lady, who was advertising on pets4homes, because it was a family and their pet dogs had allegedly ‘mated by accident’ . We thought we were thorough, met the Mum and dad dogs, spoke to the 10 year old daughter of the family, whilst Mum was talking to another buyer. The seller showed us certificates of health checks for the parents when we asked. We were there 2 hours playing and watching the litter. 2 weeks after we bought the pups home, I noticed the seller had put another litter up for sale! I reported her to pets4homes. Her advert has been removed but another account name, in the same town is now selling the same litter. My pups seem f8ne but I now think maybe they aren’t siblings at all. The girl is so much smaller and black, the Boy is cream and apricot ( as was the rest of the litter.)
 
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