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Molly has recently been diagnosed with luxating patella and I have had an interesting discussion with my vet this afternoon about the liklihood that this is a result of poor breeding stock and that they are now seeing increasing quantities of poodle crosses of all types with this and other problems. Her hips are also not as good as he would have hoped for a dog of her age and light frame :( If we can't manage the condition then this is likely to result in her having to undergo painful operations with difficult recovery periods.

The main focus on breeders websites appears to be on PRA testing and in the majority of cases only the stud dogs are tested with the more numerous bitches going completely untested. Other conditions appear to be utterly ignored.

Pups are sold at top prices which I would expect to see for pedigree's coming from two totally health tested parents so if breeders are going to continue to charge top prices please carry out every available check on both dogs and bitches and start to provide people with pups with every possible chance of living a long pain free life rather than facing a future of pain and surgery :(
 

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Im so glad you have brought this up because this is something i have been planning to speak to my vet about.One of my clients has 2 cockapoos and one has been diagnosed with a luxating patella particularly common in poodles so i am hoping to start testing for this in 2012.Up til now i have just had the eyes tested but it seems this condition is appearing here and there and i iwll feel happier knowing i have ruled something else out x
 

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I am so sorry to hear this ....

You are right some breeders do focus on either BVA or DNA testing or no testing at all .. however there are many test available ....

I have a few health testing articles .. there are many tests available when breeding the pure breeds and further generations of cockapoos ....

http://www.mydogslife.co.uk/2011/09/19/health-testing-available-in-the-uk-when-breeding-cockapoos/

http://www.mydogslife.co.uk/2011/07/03/general-health-of-cockapoos/

http://www.mydogslife.co.uk/2011/09/22/parent-pure-breed-cockapoo-health-testing/

I am still learning myself and will be looking into Patellar Luxation testing further, see whats available in the UK ...

Sending Molly and you a hug .. how is she in herself?
 

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Im so glad you have brought this up because this is something i have been planning to speak to my vet about.One of my clients has 2 cockapoos and one has been diagnosed with a luxating patella particularly common in poodles so i am hoping to start testing for this in 2012.Up til now i have just had the eyes tested but it seems this condition is appearing here and there and i iwll feel happier knowing i have ruled something else out x
Mandy I thought you were looking into this .. I will be doing the same ... please share with me your findings and I will do the same .. xxx
 

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I just wish there was a standard health checklist, highlighting potential issues with each particular breed, that breeders had to follow and include copies of all these checks in the puppy pack. It seems such a simple request but sadly there are too many puppies being bred, as stated above, where only one parent has had any checks, if at all. I spoke with a vet friend about this and she said unfortunately there is no legal requirement for breeders to carry out any tests which just seems so wrong in my mind - especially when charging premium prices. I do think it has got a bit out of hand.
 

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I am so sorry to hear about Molly. :(

I agree with you, more health testing needs to be done rather than the bare minimum PRA on the stud dog. The price that we pay for Cockapoos is more than most thoroughly tested pedigrees (although not all). Shirley and I would like to see more breeders taking these other conditions seriously.

I really do hope that she is ok.

x
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sending Molly and you a hug .. how is she in herself?
Thanks. She has not been too bad up to now but we are working on improving her muscles to get them to hold things in place and I was warned this might make things worse in the short term. She has had acupuncture this afternoon to try to ease things and I think this has made her a bit more sore tonight.
 

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Thank you for posting 2ndhandgal, now we have someone who actually has a dog as proof that ALL these health issues need testing for!
Poor Molly I hope she is not in too much pain and I know you are obviously giving her the best possible care.
If this isn't a wake up call then I don't know what is..........if I were now searching for a pup I would want to see these health tests in place and wouldn't touch anyone with a barge pole that didn't do them.
I was ignorant of these issues possibly affecting cockers and poodles, I only knew of PRA, most of my doggy experience has been with large breeds.

So now I know and and now I would urge people to ask for these health tests.
I have been educated and by reaching and educating others puppy searching, eventually the tide will turn and breeders will HAVE to have to tests in place as that is what their customer base expects. It really is a case of consumer power!

Best wishes to you and Molly.
 

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So are all these conditions genetic?? sorry for being thick but it is a worry.I thought some knee and joint problems occured just from over exercise/jumping etc as a puppy?

Can anyone explain what we shouldnt be doing with our puppies so they dont develop certain joint problems as they grow up thanks.
 

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So are all these conditions genetic?? sorry for being thick but it is a worry.I thought some knee and joint problems occured just from over exercise/jumping etc as a puppy?

Can anyone explain what we shouldnt be doing with our puppies so they dont develop certain joint problems as they grow up thanks.

Yes luxating patella is a genetic condition of the knee and is becoming more common in poodles,thats no 2 cockapoos ive heard of with the condition so thats made my mind up with regards to testing for it.with regards to exersise in young dogs,i do know that generally its the larger faster groing breeds like german shepherds,great danes,st bernards etc that exercise has to be very limited when theyre young,ive never gone by this rules with my cockapoos though but i would still not over do it when theyre still pups xxx
 

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So are all these conditions genetic?? sorry for being thick but it is a worry.I thought some knee and joint problems occured just from over exercise/jumping etc as a puppy?

Can anyone explain what we shouldnt be doing with our puppies so they dont develop certain joint problems as they grow up thanks.
Hi Donna, these are genetic conditions. Some breeds are more prone to certain condititions than others. Labs are famous for hip and elbow dysplasia as are GSD's. Some are not so well known. I had no clue cockers could also suffer this condition.
Over exercise can indeed make things worse but also under excercise can be just as bad. The joints and surrounding support tissues need exercise to be strong but not to be overstrained.
Young dogs should not be encouraged to jump from any height, hence agility shouldn't be started until after a year old. A good rough and tumble with others in the park is a good thing though as it is a natural way for young dogs to develop and socialise. If they are young and have bundles of energy and no off button its down to you to judge when your dog has had a good exercise and when they are likely to over do it.
Thats why breeders need to test for these thing so that owners don't have the worry of their pet developing any of these conditions.

My friends lab has limped quite badly from the age of 9 months.......now that dog can have upto another 10 years in chronic pain:(
It would just break your heart if it happened to your pet.

If parent are hip and elbow scored before breeding and an acceptable score is present then you can be reasonably sure that the offspring should be sound in hip and elbow, if a bad score is present any litter bred will have a much higher chance of developing dysplasia. Its down to the breeders and people buying pups to ask for these tests.:)
 

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I must confess Donna I do not know how much they cost. However if you think about the amount of money a Cockapoo puppy costs * the number in each litter * four litters in a bitches lifetime, then there is more thn enough to cover the tests. If a bitch had 6 puppies per litter and did not need any additional medical intervention then that one bitch would bring in £21600. Obvioulsy there are other costs to take into account such as food, vet checks, vaccinations, worming treatments etc etc however I feel that there is no excuse for not testing dogs and bitches properly apart from saving £££££££££. :(
 

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Not sure how representitive this is however I have found out the following

To test for FN £85
Optigen £120
Eye exam approx £40
Hip scores approx £150

That is all I have found out for now but I think you would be looking to pay around the £500-£600 to test a dog properly. A small price to pay to ensure that you are producing healthy puppies. Even if you breed carriers as breeders regularly do, puppies are sold without contracts and could go on to be bred with other carriers producing affected puppies. As someone pointed out on another thread there are SO many puppies on preloved, most of them without any health tests on the parent dogs.

I want our club to become popular, not because there is anything in it for us because we are non profitable but because we want to try and improve the breeding situation and make the public more aware when they go looking for a Cockapoo puppy that there is more to it than finding a cute fluffy dog!

I think all of these club discussions are really positive :) This is a fantastic opportunity to make a difference but we need to set the standards high if we want to make any difference.
 

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Yes luxating patella is a genetic condition of the knee and is becoming more common in poodles,thats no 2 cockapoos ive heard of with the condition so thats made my mind up with regards to testing for it.with regards to exersise in young dogs,i do know that generally its the larger faster groing breeds like german shepherds,great danes,st bernards etc that exercise has to be very limited when theyre young,ive never gone by this rules with my cockapoos though but i would still not over do it when theyre still pups xxx
LP is more common in the toy breeds (but not restricted to) so is a must if breeding with a toy poodle but I think it could be good practice for cockapoo breeders to have all their dogs checked out prior to breeding for this condition.

Ok have said this a few times now so sorry if I am repeating myself.
Unlike hips and eyes there is no UK screening programme at present so diagnosis is made by your vet.


OK THESE ARE MY PERSONAL VIEWS AS I HAVE RESEARCHED ALL THE TESTS FOR OUR DOGS AND HAVE NOT JUST COPIED AND PASTED. I AM NOT AN EXPERT SO SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE_ BUT THESE ARE MY VIEWS TO WHICH I AM ENTITLED TO:



Diagnosis by a vet could be problem as some vets may be better at diagnosing than others. As with anything that requires visual testing or manipulation by hand things could go un-noticed, especially to the less experienced vet.

If you dog is not presenting physical symptoms a vet could do a manipulation test of the joints and find all ok and you could bred and then later find out the condition is present, maybe the age of poodle studs could therefore be a consideration??? some do put there dogs to stud young- if stud poodle dogs were say at least 18 months -2 (off top of my head) then they will be mature and a good time frame has been given for LP to show early clinical signs.

Using a very young stud of 6 months to a year could in some instances not give enough time for the condition to show enough clinical signs to be picked up on.

As it is a progressive disease symptoms usually start off slowly and may go un-noticed at first.

A good vet could include a manual check as part of their regular check e.g heart, eyes, teeth etc......

Unfortunately there is no DNA test available for LP- so it is finding a good vet who will be able to carry out an examination and be able to quickly identify any joint problems.

Any dog that has been diagnosed with LP should not be bred from.


Mandy when you do get yours tested would be great to hear how the process went for future reference :)
 

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I am sorry to hear about Molly and hope she is ok. I am glad that you are sharing your experience with us, and hopefully it will make other people think before buying a puppy that’s parents have not been health checked.

I am waiting for my new puppy, and i would not buy of anyone that does not health check, and i will hopefully find one that does all the necessary checks for both the cocker and the poodle, (fingers and toes crossed).

I am sure that is the main thing we all want is a happy healthy puppy, and we also want the parents of the puppy to be the same. I don’t think it is a lot to ask of a breeder, as there main priority should also be the health of the puppies / dogs.
 
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