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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can't believe how things have changed at night. Just when I thought we were really making progress I feel like I am almost back to the beginning again. For the last two nights Daisy had cried and howled again and I have ended up moving my mattress back to within her sight. I hate to go backwards but I can't keep being up til 1am and getting up again with her at 5.30am. I feel like it is now effecting me and today I just feel so tearful. I don't know whether to just keep on with this or try something new. Probably too early to give up on this method but I just feel so despondent :cry2:

Sorry to have a moan I just desperately want things to be alright! :ilmc:
 

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Hi Sarah,

Sorry that you are feeling tearful today x Sleep deprivation makes everything seem 10x worse !

When training animals it all about consistency - and taking two steps forward and one step back is normal - so stick with it for now x

Stephen xx:hug:
 

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Sarah it's probably a bit like toilet training. It can be going so well and then all of a sudden you get a couple of bad days with several accidents and wonder why. I'm not hugely experienced but I think it can be a matter of two steps forwards and one step backwards. You are doing such a good job with Daisy. Can anyone give you a break today so that you can catch up on some sleep? You'd feel so much better for it.
Keep going hun. She really will get there with your gentle and patient approach. :)

Karen xx
 

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Hi Sarah - I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling tearful today as lack of sleep is terrible and does make everything much worse. I think that you should maybe give your method a few more days if you can stand it! Try and get some rest today - easier said than done I know - and hopefully things will start to improve again. You are doing a really great job and I completely admire you for taking Daisy on and more to the point keeping her with the separation issues she has! Sending you big hugs :D XX
 

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Good luck with Daisy, I really feel do for you, when I was a child we adopted an older puppy,she would not settle at night and screamed the house down, scratched constantly on the kitchen door:eek: (we had no crates in those days lol). In the end I would go down and get her and put her in bed with me,and cuddle her all night, problem solved:eek: lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you. I think you are right, I need to get through this blip. It is amazing as at this moment she is curled up asleep in her crate quite happily and yet last night she was avoiding going in as if she knew it was bed time! I would love to rest today but husband and kids have left me for the day so that I can write my latest ou assignment. At least my mum has invited us round for tea. :) I wish I had a hotline to an expert trainer who could just tell me what to do and that it will work within a certain time. The problem at the moment is I can't see how I am going to achieve her feeling settled at night. Like you say Stephen, everything always seems at its worse when you are tired, tonight is another night, tomorrow another day.... :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Good luck with Daisy, I really feel do for you, when I was a child we adopted an older puppy,she would not settle at night and screamed the house down, scratched constantly on the kitchen door:eek: (we had no crates in those days lol). In the end I would go down and get her and put her in bed with me,and cuddle her all night, problem solved:eek: lol
That would certainly solve it! I think the cat and husband might not be too happy though! :)
 
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hi sarah just read your post i feel really sorry for you it is true what all others have said , you need to leave her for longer.......... periods of time during the day and at night cover over the cage with a blanket so it is blacked out and you may not like what im about to propose ! but if she starts crying go down stairs and bag harshly on the top of the cage and shout at her try to do a big scary voice ! i know it will be hard but it does work they link the big scary voice with crying and they do shut up it may take a few goes but in my experience it works ( get hubby to do it) if you cant , sorry if others dont agree but at the end of the day sarahs sleep is very important ,and it sounds to me like the puppys pattern of crying has to be stopped abrubtly janice aka romeo x
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Sarah don't give in it's like a child if you give in to them you have had it!
The KEY to crating your dog is to do it while you are home, for short periods of time!
Many people use the crate incorrectly and ultimately give their dog the vibe that it's a bad thing. The crate should NOT be used as a punishment, timeout or right before you leave. One idea is to crate her in different spots in the house helps break up the pattern and not feel she's crated only when it's lights out. Remember, crating is meant to teach your dog to chill, and create a pattern with your daily routine, so that eventually you don't need the crate at all. Hope this helps xxxxxxxx
Thank you. She seems to like it during the day and I had even got her going in of her own accord for a bit of sausage! It's just suddenly changed? I have read about moving the crate around but I can't see how that will help at night, maybe I am missing something or need to go back an reread? My parents have just suggested I have her upstairs and forget the crate but I need her happy in her crate as I will need to leave her for school runs etc soon. We have always made the crate a happy place for her and it is in a good spot, out of the way but still keeping us in view. I have just been to pah and come back to a very stressed out doggy, do you think she will just get used to being left? Is it something that in 12 months time we will look back on and wonder how we did it? :confused::rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
hi sarah just read your post i feel really sorry for you it is true what all others have said , you need to leave her for longer.......... periods of time during the day and at night cover over the cage with a blanket so it is blacked out and you may not like what im about to propose ! but if she starts crying go down stairs and bag harshly on the top of the cage and shout at her try to do a big scary voice ! i know it will be hard but it does work they link the big scary voice with crying and they do shut up it may take a few goes but in my experience it works ( get hubby to do it) if you cant , sorry if others dont agree but at the end of the day sarahs sleep is very important ,and it sounds to me like the puppys pattern of crying has to be stopped abrubtly janice aka romeo x
Sorry Janice, missed your post, my internet is down and I am relying on my phone at the moment, which means it takes ages and strange words keep appearing instead of what I typed ( maybe that is tiredness) . I really appreciate your experience but if a dog is anxious when left I can't get my head around how shouting and banging the crate will help. Maybe I am too soft but as I am the person that she looks to for security I would feel concerned about turning into angry shouting person. Despair and a sense of failure is what I feel at the moment. I have covered the crate with a blanket but she pulls it through the holes in the crate and destroys it. She is so stressed she sweats, pants like a little steam train and makes the most awful groany/whining/bark sound that cuts right through you. I often find little bits of vet bed in her poo from when she gas chewed it through stress. She is not being naughty I believe she is completely distressed. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

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I have used calming herbal remedies on horses with great success and Valerian certainly has it's qualities.

Daisy doesn't sound as though she is a little anxious though. She sounds as though she has a full blown phobia. The trick with phobias is to give her MILD exposure to the phobia in very small steps and relieve her of that situation BEFORE she goes out of control distracting her and praise/treats for the tiniest step of progress. Even if it's only staying calm for 30 seconds longer than before. If you get too confident and move on faster than she can cope with then she will revert but all will not be lost. Go back to a previous stage that she can tollerate and slowly progress with the training again. This is certainly a case for dedication and consistency and we do hope that in a years time you look back at this and smile.

Please don't feel a failure as all you can do is try...and remember not 100% of older dogs can be ultimately crate trained. Give it your best shot, with time she may surprise you yet.

Julia x
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I would agree with the full blown phobia description.

I am using a dap plug in near her crate but might try another calmative the one I tried before gave her loose poo which added to the problem. 30 seconds would be great, I can manage 10 at the moment. Anything after that and the scratching starts. I am working on it though. :)
 

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Hi Sarah, sorry to hear you're having such a tough time at the moment. I assume she had never been in crate before coming to you? Is the crate specifically that stresses her out or is it being left (probably both)?

Would she prefer being in a bed in the kitchen with closed stairgate but open door? Maisie was ill as a pup when we got her and was super-clingy ... she never took to a crate at all. We left her in a bed with toys etc. newspaper on the floor, radio on ... and when she cried/howled I did the controlled crying technique I used on my sons when babies ... ie. go down, calm them down and sit there a little while, come back up - each time you go down you do/say less ... they eventually get it.

I too wouldn't want them in the bedroom. I do hope things improve for you soon. Sue :hug:
 

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one of the dogs i look after suffers from seperation anxiety and they give her bachs remedies which seems to help,have you tried the plug in dap diffuser which can help calm a nervous dog down.I really sympithise with your situation,it must be really stressful.perhaps try very short periods with a new tasty treat everytime she is put in the crate ie smoked sausage,cheese etc saved just for this occasion so she associates this with something really pleasant.Another idea would be to replace the crate with a puppypen,the one i have has a plastic just like a crate does but its bigger with a little gate at the front and it can come with taller sides.I have trained lex and pasley this way and have found them to be more content with the playpen,i think carol who has maisie and ellie did this with ellie.I kno a behaviourist so i can try and get some advice from her if you like.keep up the fab work you are doing with her,i know it cant be easy xxx
 

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Sarah I completely understand how exhausting it is, I can remember only too well sobbing on the sofa in exasperation with Izzy (not for the same issue). I completely agree with Julia and the positive reinforcement method of training, rather than the frightening/punishing methods. You know the answer - EAT CHOCOLATE - be patient, your will be successful but it will take a lot of time - good luck, lots of hugs xx
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
one of the dogs i look after suffers from seperation anxiety and they give her bachs remedies which seems to help,have you tried the plug in dap diffuser which can help calm a nervous dog down.I really sympithise with your situation,it must be really stressful.perhaps try very short periods with a new tasty treat everytime she is put in the crate ie smoked sausage,cheese etc saved just for this occasion so she associates this with something really pleasant.Another idea would be to replace the crate with a puppypen,the one i have has a plastic just like a crate does but its bigger with a little gate at the front and it can come with taller sides.I have trained lex and pasley this way and have found themo to be more content with the playpen,i think carol who has maisie and ellie did this with ellie.I kno a behaviourist so i can try and get some advice from her if you like.keep up the fab work you are doing with her,i know it cant be easy xxx
Thank you mandy. I was looking at the bachs remedies in a shop the other day but didnt get any as wasn't 100 percent sure on how to use them with dogs. There was also a big selection and I was unsure what to buy. I have been using a dap diffuser but i guess I wouldn't know uf that was working unless it ran out! Any advice from a behaviorist would be great if you dont mind. I had one 'behaviorist' tell me to squirt her with water and another tell me when on the brink of tears that I didn't have a problem! Seriously, some people might be good with dogs but have terrible people skills! The trainer I will be using for classes said what I was doing was fine but she is away at the moment. I am open to all help and advise, anything that helps Daisy towards being a happy, contented dog. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sarah I completely understand how exhausting it is, I can remember only too well sobbing on the sofa in exasperation with Izzy (not for the same issue). I completely agree with Julia and the positive reinforcement method of training, rather than the frightening/punishing methods. You know the answer - EAT CHOCOLATE - be patient, your will be successful but it will take a lot of time - good luck, lots of hugs xx
Love it! Thanks just had a wagon wheel with a cup of tea! I am sure the kids won't miss it!

Xxx
 
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