[Oscarbella]

This is all really good advice �� thank you! She doesn't seem to be holding it for anywhere near 3 hours though, but I worry that she thinks she has to go just purely because the pad is there? Maybe if I took it away she would hold it a bit longer? I only ever use the pads overnight (because she is left more than 3 hours) and while I go to work because again, she is left about 3 hours so I wouldn't have expected her to hold it quite that long..
I'm not sure if I'm being really dim but she generally doesn't show signs she is about to go, I normally am very good at knowing she is about to wee or poo and get her out in time but mostly she can just be stood there and then drops into a squat and goes..
It's very tricky this toilet training! I don't ever remember it being this difficult with my Oscar

 

[Oscarbella]

I think I am going to have to take it back to basics which is really frustrating because we were doing so well. She even got to a stage where she would go to the back door on her own and wait to signal that she needed to go but she doesn't do that anymore and just pees all over the carpet with no signs whatsoever.
I put her in her safe place this morning while I got ready for work and left the puppy pads down and even though she'd only just had a wee about half an hour before she ended up weeing on the carpet....it baffles me.
Now I am starting to wonder if she has a urinary problem like cystitis?
My husband thinks we should remove the puppy pads now when we go to work as we feel that she thinks they mean she has to go just because they are there and isn't learning to hold on to it..but then I think we are asking for trouble if we do that.
I suffer from anxiety so probably don't cope with things like this as well as other people do, I worry a lot about every tiny thing she does or doesn't do and always find myself asking the 'What if?' question....predominantly 'What if she never gets it?'. I sometimes worry that my anxiety doesn't help her, as in she maybe picks up on it and it makes her anxious in turn?

 

[Oscarbella]

I am using fake grass (as in what you would buy from Homebase) with the puppy pads underneath to soak the urine up. I am using this fake grass purely because this is what the breeder had her on so that's what she knew to use. Seemed daft trying to change it if she was already happy with it and she was happy with it until lately...

When I clean up messes on the carpet I use a stain and odour remover from pets at home, the one where you just pour it straight on the carpet, leave to soak then wipe with a dry cloth.

I came home at lunch time today to see to the dogs and the pet carer had left a note to say that Bella hadn't done any wees inside (which is a positive) so she let her out in the garden but she didn't go. As soon as she brought her in though she did two wees in the living room! And then when I've come home just now she's peed on the carpet in the hallway and not her fake grass...but she has never done this before. I know carpet can be confusing for pups so am considering shutting her and Oscar in just the kitchen but I feel like this is cruel because it's not a big kitchen and they have gotten used to having the hall and kitchen...

 

[Oscarbella]

In all honesty it sounds like Bella is very confused about what she should be doing where and puppy pads and leaving are both confusing to her. I am not quite sure where pet carer fits in? Is that she is left for 3 hours once a day with one visit in that time from pet carer or left for longer?

Unfortunately pups need to toilet and need people around to guide them to the right places and the more time she is unsupervised the longer the process is likely to take as she will be going in the wrong place

Hi 2ndhand,

Yes I am beginning to think that she is getting confused bless her, she was doing so well with it though for the first 4 weeks and is now just all over the place with it so I'm not sure what brought it on...

Basically I leave for work at about 8:15 in the morning, the pet carer comes in at 11:00 to let them out for wees/poos, clean up any mess and then have a play etc. She then leaves at just gone half 11, I then come back at 14:00pm for near to an hour to do the same (let them out etc) and then come back to work so they are left from about 15:00pm until 17:45. So they are never left more than 3 hours at a time on their own. I know it isn't ideal but what with me and my husband both working full time jobs it is the best we can do.

I did read online prior to getting Bella that if puppies are left unsupervised for longer periods of times than those who are not that they can take longer to pick up the toilet training. But what I don't understand is that she was picking it up, really really well, and now she isn't...I don't know how it went wrong when nothing changed?

 

[Oscarbella]

I agree with 2nd Handgal your little girl is very confused. Personally I would put the fake grass and the puppy pad outside deny her access to any carpet UNLESS you are there to supervise her 100% . This is not cruel. It will help her to be clear about where to pee. She will get there. But she needs clear gentle guidance as she is in a tiswas about it. When she goes out. Go with her. Stay with her. Take treats and praise her. Go completely over the top. Do a little dance. Really go to town. She will love it. And will cotton on very quickly. As for you. Take deep breaths. Keep calm. Be patient.

Hi Cat53,

If I take away the fake grass while I'm not there though and only leave her in the kitchen rather than on carpet, will she not then just be forced to go on the kitchen floor instead?

Whenever she goes anywhere I am always there behind her, I think she gets a bit fed up of it bless her. And especially if she goes in the garden I am there watching her and standing ready with my command and a handful of treats.

Thanks for your help and advise though to everyone I really do appreciate it and it's great having people who you can talk to and that know how you are feeling.

 

[Oscarbella]

Unfortunately the hours she is left mean she has no choice but to toilet and she will find it hard to work out the rules are different when people are there.

Did you have some time off work to settle her in when you first got her? that could be why she made good strides initially and is now going backwards.

You are just going to have to persevere with lots of positive rewards when she gets it right at weekends and in the mornings and evenings and spending lots of time outside so she gets the opportunity to get it right as much as possible.

Yes we had just over 2 weeks off when we first got her to settle her in and begin training. I can see where you are coming from with regards her going backwards now there isn't always someone there to supervise...I think she is beginning to get it again now that we have upped the anti with the praises she gets when she gets it right..just at nearly 16 weeks old it's beginning to worry me that we are going backwards like this

 

[Oscarbella]

I can see your frustration at this wee step back Rosie ( no pun intended) but firstly don't fret she will get it, she still quiet young. Saying that both Molly and Sid were practically clean by 14 weeks. I never used pee pads as most are impregnated with the smell of wee and I felt that this sometimes gives them the sence that anything that feels soft like the pads are an OK place for peeing on,eg the carpet! All accident were cleaned with a solution of none bio washing liquid to avoid traces of smell so this place was not associated as a wee area. I would either take mine out like other say after waking after eating and playing. Stay out or just stand at the door and wait until all business had been completed with a little coaxing like go wee wee! Lots of praise when done and I mean lots
I think one key thing to remember is not to tell her off when she has an accident.
Don't stress,keep up the good work and before you know it she will be clean. Sometimes it feels like it just happens over night

See this is why I am worrying because she is nearly 16 weeks now and she is going backwards with it all I am taking her out at all the right times and we seem to be getting better at weeing outside now which is good!

On a side note:
I've just come home from work to find the hallway in a right old state! Poo almost everywhere! Mainly on the pad though but the problem is she decided to drag and rip up the pad! So I have poo and puppy pad absolutely everywhere! What is that all about? When I came through the door though I just ignored what had happened, let her straight out in the garden where she had a wee followed by me singing and dancing like a lunatic (the neighbours must love me!). I then shut her in a different room so I could clean up the mess alone. I've now let her back in the hallway and have made no fuss or bother over what had happened. Is that the right thing to do? I don't understand how it can get better by ignoring it?

 

[Oscarbella]

The reason for ignoring it is that she won't associate the reprimand with the appropriate behavior. A quick correction if you actually see her in the act ("uh uh") and then immediately take her outside. But if you don't see her in the act, you are punishing her for the thing right before you make a comment, maybe coming to you, telling her it's not ok to come to you.

How much activity is she getting? I found my two needed more and more activity around 4 months. They were in daycare and played and napped all day. Then we would do 1-2 hours at the dog park where they chased each other around in the evenings. I also spent mornings and evenings doing training too. Bella may need more activity and stimulation than maybe Oscar needed at that age.

How is Oscar doing, speaking of?


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Yes ok that makes sense

She is currently getting a 15 min walk in the morning, then half an hour play and some mental stimulation via the pet carer playing and carrying on with our training. Then a 15 minute walk again at around 2 in the afternoon. Then another 15 minute walk in the evening along with us playing and training her later on. I am doing the 5 minute per month of age rule at the moment so will up it to 20 minutes soon. I am scared of overdoing it with the length of the walk as I've heard that they can get joint problems if worked too much at a young age?

Oscar is doing really well bless his heart. Such an understanding and patient little man. He is so good and gentle with her and tolerates much more than I would if I was him! He is still getting plenty of love from me and my husband and lots of free treats!

 

[Oscarbella]

OK - onto the practical of what you can do. You need her to be tired when left so she is less likely to get up to mischief so the mornings she needs far more than a 15 minute walk - not more walking but in addition to the walk she needs some play and probably some training or games to tire her brain out a bit. She needs to wee and poo before you leave her.

I would probably make the 30 minute pet carer visit up to an hour which will give time for a good while spent in the garden to try and get good toilet habits as well as more play and training.

Same again with the afternoon session. A walk, some training, some time just spent in the garden waiting for toilet to try and ensure she is tired and empty before being left.

How long a walk can I get away with before worrying about whether I am doing any lasting damage to her joints? I personally think any thing more than 20 mins will kill her, she always seems really glad to be home after the walk as she starts to pull real hard on her lead. To be honest I am already doing a lot of what everyone is saying which is why I am really struggling to understand why she is going backwards with it all...I guess with all puppies you have your good and your bad days. More good days would be nice though as at the moment the bad days are overtaking the good ones!

 

[Oscarbella]

I did not say walk her for longer, I said longer in the garden and more time spent including brain games and training to try and tire her a bit before she is left.

I do not know why you are struggling to understand - she is being left for too long and this is why she is going backwards, she has nobody around to take her out for a large proportion of the day.

Just for the record - I live alone and work full time. I get up at 6 so I have time for Molly and her physio before leaving home to take the dogs for a walk and then drop them at a friends where they spend the day with her dogs before I pick them up in the evening after work, give them another walk on the way home before more exercises and whatever training or whatever else they might need. It is hard work and costs me well over an hour driving just driving each day, plus petrol costs and payment to my friend but worth it for having happy dogs.

Apologies, I misread what you had said about the walking part. And as I have already said, I am doing everything you are detailing which is the reason I don't understand why she has gone backwards. We all know our own dogs better than anyone else does and I know that something just isn't right. Nothing has changed in the household with regards to routine or anything else so it doesn't make sense to me why she would all of a sudden get worse when she was beginning to get better.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of being able to take my dogs to a friends house and putting them into day care isn't an option for me as I'm not the richest of people. I live within my means and give my dogs the best care and attention I can. If I didn't feel I could care and provide for my dogs fully I would never have got them. My dogs are happy, we are just having a little set back that I hoped I could talk to other people about.

Like I mentioned before I suffer from anxiety and this is probably playing a huge factor in my worries and there probably really is nothing to worry about.

I only started this thread because I wanted to talk to other people that knew how I was feeling and who could give me some friendly advice but now I feel like I am being accused of not looking after my dogs properly?

 

[Oscarbella]

I have been reading this thread with lots of interest and feel for you with regards to the toilet training - but i do agree with 2ndhandgal's advice re tiring your puppy out.
With regards to walking - it sounds like you have got it exactly right - the problem to me seems like Bella is not getting enough mental stimulation during the day.
Although I am retired I send Freddie to Doggy Day Care for approx 1.5 days a week (and have done since he was 14 weeks old). There he got to run around with all his pals and comes home tired out!!
How is she at the weekend when you are there at home - do things improve??
Also, don't let Bella see or feel your frustration as they pick up on our vibes very quickly (and I do appreciate that easier said than done).
Good luck. You WILL get there although it can be hard at this stage!

Oh yes I completely agree with the advice regarding tiring her out mentally and this is something I will look in to. When we are at home I wouldn't say things improve dramatically, we still have accidents in the house even though she is given plenty of opportunities to go outside. For example, she was showing signs of needing a wee so we let her out and she just ran straight back in and wee'd by the back door?

Oh I never let her or Oscar see my frustration, as I am always very aware and conscious of them picking up on any negative vibes.

By the sounds of it I was over thinking and worrying a tad too much, she will get there eventually, I just need to keep working hard at it and it will eventually all come together.

Thanks to everyone for all your help and advice, I really do appreciate it